ICR321: Damion Lupo, Freedom from Money Bondage
One million people financially free. That’s the mission of my guest on the podcast today, who joins me to share his tips on freedom from money bondage.
Damion Lupo is a best selling personal finance author and host of the Transformation Nation podcast. He’s owned more than 30 companies and even founded his own martial art.
Damion outrightly rejects regret and speaks to it as the ultimate life failure. He’s got a unique approach to living a fulfilled life by breaking rule and making more mistakes, faster, than the competition – what he calls his key to success.
Playing by a different set of rules, he even bought his first rental house with a credit card,a move that snowballed into owning 150 rental houses in 7 states in less than 5 years.
In 2008 he lost the entire $20 million but recreated his wealth and reinvented his life over 4 transformational years.
Today he leads 3 global companies with one unified mission – to Free People from Money Bondage. What is money bondage? We cover that in the conversation too.
Here’s my conversation with Damion Lupo, freedom from money bondage, in episode 321 of Informed Choice Radio.
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Useful links
-Transformation Nation podcast
Interview transcript
Martin: Well, welcome back to Informed Choice Radio, and I’m delighted to welcome Damion Lupo. Damion’s a best-selling author in personal finance in money thinking. He’s host of the Transformation Nation podcast. Owner of 30 plus companies, and founder of his own martial art, which I’d love to talk about in a minute. Damion, welcome to the podcast.
Damion: It’s good to be here, man. It’s nice to talk to my friend across the pond.
Martin: Yeah, absolutely. Now, I wanted to start with this, your book, Reinvented Life. It’s a story of how you built a 20 million dollar fortune back in your 20s, and then you lost it all because of ego and greed and speed. What happened?
Damion: Well, I think that was a really good summation of what the whole process was. I went into the real estate world after having gone to a seminar, which was basically to meet Robert Kiyosaki, and I started doing what these people told me to do at the seminar, and I just did a lot of it. I built up a lot of money and it was never really enough money. It was just more and more, which I thought was the game. I thought that was the entire point, and the problem is, when you have that as your focus, it’s never enough. You just think, “Okay, if I get enough, if I get more, I’ll be happy. I’ll find that success.”
When Chris and I wrote Reinvented Life, there’s a chapter called Success versus Fulfilment, and we really go into the whole idea that, if you’re focusing on success and achievement, and you’ve got these check boxes for your life, you’re going to spend most of your life struggling, and not really feeling fulfilled. You’re just going to be looking for that moment of bliss that goes away a second later. And that’s what I was getting.
I had five million dollars in the bank. Felt like not nearly enough. Like, “I’m not free and I’m not happy.”, and ultimately, I think the universe has a way of giving us the feedback that this is the wrong course, and it’s the wrong intention, and it ran over me, because my ego was focused on the money and not the mission.
Martin: Was it the result of external factors that saw you go from quite a substantial property fortune, to effectively nothing?
Damion: Partially. One of the things that I was doing was, I was figuring out a way to make a lot of money and then spend a lot of money. In 2008, when the markets collapsed globally, there were plenty of people that maintained and even grew their wealth. The people that got run over, in large part, really didn’t have a focus on longterm sustainability. They weren’t building a foundation that was solid. There was a lot of shaky ground that people were building things on, and I was one of them.
I was harvesting way too much of my stuff, instead of letting things naturally grow. I was thinking, “Oh, if this is never going to end, then …” And I was super smart. I was not 10 feet tall and bullet-proof, but I sure acted like I was.
Martin: And this was a decade ago, now, so how would you describe your mission today, and what’s changed in that 10 years?
Damion: Back then, there was a focus on money being the mission, and if truly money is the mission for anybody, you’ve got a huge problem, because it’s not why you’re here. It’s an amazing side effect, because it really does show you the impact. Money is this energy that becomes a side effect of you having an impact with your contribution, so the difference today is that my mission is to free a million people from financial bondage. It’s creating a new one percent … There’s this whole idea of the one percent being these rich, greedy pricks. And the truth is, with what I’m working on, all of my efforts, and all the things I do, even the people that I spend time with, like you right now, are focused on that, and if you weren’t in the right space, in terms of energy or values, or the work you’re doing, I wouldn’t be here with you, because I’m super narrowly focused on this mission and everything has to align with it and support it, or I filter it out.
I didn’t filter anything out. I wasn’t saying no to anything. I said yes to everything before. It’s very easy for most people to get sucked into saying yes to most things, and there’s just too many choices. We have to figure out how to say no, and that happens because we have a mission that drives us in what we were saying yes to.
Martin: Financial bondage. What does that mean? How would you define it?
Damion: I would say, financial bondage is shackles. It’s money controlling your decisions. It’s the lack of money, or too much money. It’s effectively that money is keeping you scared of being open, and there’s this tendency, if you have a lot of money, that you’re afraid you’re going to lose it, and if you don’t have much, you’re afraid that you need to get more, or you’re going to die.
What we really find, is that when we look a financial freedom, it’s not a function of how much cash you have, and it’s not even a function of how much cashflow. I know there’s a lot of talk about having cashflow, having cashflow properties, and this is what creates freedom. It’s not true. What creates true freedom is the confidence in your ability to create. And that’s the whole shift, because once you have that confidence, for example, if somebody … I’ve had plenty of people come up to me and hire me to work with them. When they say, “I’ve got millions in the bank, and I’m scared to death I’m going to lose it. I’m 55 years old, and I don’t have time to go recreate this, the way I did it.”
They don’t have the confidence, and therefore they’re not free. The confidence is where you say, “Oh, okay, I really have built the muscle, and it doesn’t really matter what happens externally, because internally I have a belief, and I trust myself to be able to go out and do whatever I need to do to create.” That’s the shift into the freedom.
Martin: It’s interesting to come at it from that direction, because often when we think about money causing difficulties and controlling our decisions, it’s because we’ve not got enough of it. But of course, having too much, or a lot of it, can be equally as bad.
Damion: It’s a totally different set of problems, but you go into a defensive space where you’re afraid to lose. If you think about the news globally, there’s a news of crisis and chaos and things falling apart. It doesn’t matter that if you look at the numbers, the numbers tell you that the world is a better, safer, more abundant place. But the news feeds on people that have money, that are afraid. If you can feed into that idea of fear, then people will pay attention because they don’t want to lose.
That’s why you see the programming the way that you do on television. It’s directed at people that have money, that are afraid. Those are the people that are spending money. If you look at the advertisers, it’s all geared towards people that are not wanting to lose what they have.
Martin: Freeing people from financial bondage, what does that look like in practical terms? Is this about being financially independent? I know there’s a big movement, financial independence, retire early [inaudible 00:06:19]. Is it about that? Is it having financial independence to live your life, make your own decisions about flexibility?
Damion: It’s a combination of two things. One, it’s getting very, very clear about what’s true about your life, what your habits are saying about your values, what you actually value. We look at three things. We look at people’s cash, their credit, and their calendar. The reason we do those things is because it tells us, it tells me, it tells you who you are, and what you value. Once you have a clarity around the truth today, there’s power in being able to change things, and heading in a different direction. And also to understand if you’ve got a certain amount of wealth, and you’re saying, “No, I can’t afford to take a day of my life, and do anything that I really want. I’ve got to wait for 20 more years.”, then when you have this real truth around what you’re doing, you can say, “Oh, I actually could take another month a year, and do these things and have these experiences. I don’t have to wait until I ‘retire’.”
We start off with really digging into the numbers, and most people are super disconnected with the numbers. They don’t understand them, or they exhaust them. That’s the first place that we start. And then we start building the confidence muscle around the things that can create wealth, not necessarily over 20 years, but over 20 months of deeper understanding into money and deeper understanding into the creation. That’s the process of building that confidence muscle that, for most people, is probably pretty weak, or almost nonexistent. It’s the exercises … It’s starting with the questions about what the heck is true about you right now, and where is that going to take you, if you stay on this default path?
Martin: And you mention retirement there, I guess in the context of delaying life, in a sense. You’re working hard, you’re working hard, eventually you get to retire, and then you get all your time back, and you get to do things. What’s your view of retirement, in terms of a traditional retirement?
Damion: I think it’s the stupidest concept that we’ve ever come up with, as humans. I think it was used many years ago, 100 years ago, when we had the industrial age, where we had equipment and animals that effectively ran out of usable … they just became unusable. The equipment either broke down, the animals got old and you took them out in the back in the field, and you shot them. That was kind of the end of their existence. You retired them, or you buried the equipment.
What we did, is we said, “Well, humans are going to be not useful at a certain age, and we’re going to retire them.” That was based on them being more labor-focused, and it just kind of stuck. And then there’s this trick, that if you work long enough as a cog, as this labour force, then you can live down the road. We’re not meant to do that. We’re not meant to stop.
Here’s the reason we’re not meant to; if you stop contributing, you say, “Okay, I’m done. I’m going to just travel. I’m going to hang out. I’m going to play golf or bridge, or whatever we do.” My belief is that the universe says, “If you’re not going to contribute, then I’m going to stop contributing to you.” It’s why, in the United States, the average male dies three years after he retires. It’s because of this lack of engagement, lack of contribution. It’s a very dangerous space for most people to go into, because they’re not mentally engaging, and energetically, I think the circulation of energy just kind of stops and then they check out.
It’s a great way, if you want a death sentence, to retire and not have something that really matters, that you’re focused on. That’s where a lot of people go to. And the problem is, they spend the best years of their life building up to that. Instead of living, you mentioned kind of the idea of early retiring. How about finding something you love to do, so you’re not thinking about the weekend and your vacation so much. That you’re really looking forward to waking up in the morning early, because you can’t wait to do your thing? How about starting with that, and really changing your entire outlook, and that way you’re not going, “Maybe if I retire, someday I’ll actually be happy.” That’s a terrible mindset. Terrible mindset.
Martin: You see a growing trend, here in the UK, of people retiring, stopping work, and then a few months or years later realising they’ve made a terrible mistake, and going back into the workforce or starting a new business. Just doing something to engage their minds, and to become more social again; have a purpose. Is that something that you see too?
Damion: That’s exactly what’s happening. And people … they’re lost. I tried retiring, and it was funny. I tried retiring for a minute when I was in my 20s, after I’d made quite a bit of money. I remember my dad’s philosophy, because he was a military guy, and had a government pension. For 12 years … He would tell me he was working because 10 years later, eight years later, he was going have a pension, and then he’d be happy.
I thought, “You’re giving up all this time.” And then he got out there and he found some stuff to do, but he never really went into the place of deep satisfaction around doing something that was interesting. He just had a lot of time to become a great spender, a great consumer.
Yeah, that’s happening in the UK. It’s happening in the US. In general, I think people have to have something that matters, in terms of contribution. It’s one of our basic human needs. One of our basic human needs is not consumption. That just keeps us busy.
Martin: How do we go about finding this purpose, finding our mission in life, in terms of how we can connect wealth to what we get out of life?
Damion: There’s two things. One of the questions is, what do you love doing that you would do for free? If I asked that to most people that are listening right now, and I’d narrow it down to the work that they’re doing day-to-day, most people are not willing to do things that they’re doing for free. You ask that question, and it kind of gives you some insight into whether you should be doing that thing you’re doing, or whether you should be looking at something else.
There’s usually something that’s driving us, and there’s usually an economic model around it if we look. That’s really the first thing, just to be honest about what we enjoy doing.
A big part of that question is, are you going to be connected to other people? Because we’re social beings, and if we say, “Well, I’m just going to be isolated, and I’m going to do this thing.”, you’re probably missing out on a big part of why we’re here, and the other basic human need. There’s these six. One of them is love and connection. Isolating ourselves is not how we’re going to have a fulfilled life. How are you going to impact and contribute to people and connect with them?
If you start thinking about that, you’ve got a skillset, a love, and how does that interact with other people, you can start designing your life, that you’re actually going to love and fall in love with, versus trying to run away from and get to a retirement space, so then you can start living. You have to really rewire and think through, how are you going to connect with people with work that you actually enjoy doing? It isn’t about getting a check at the end of it.
Martin: I mentioned, when I introduced you, you’re the owner of more than 30 companies, which is quite a number, and I think you probably fit the classical definition of a serial entrepreneur. What are some of the lessons, some of the big lessons you’ve learned from starting and running those different companies?
Damion: A couple of big lessons. One, everything takes longer and costs more than you think. I mean, that has been consistent with every business I’ve ever had. There is as much of a danger in having too much money with a business, as there is in having not enough capital. When you have too much, we tend to think about the design of our space, and we go very Steve Jobs in our thinking; the best chairs. And we think too much, instead of going out and asking the marketplace what it would like us to deliver to it. That’s a big problem.
One of my companies, I raised too much money and spent too long not selling, not figuring out what the customer wanted, and it ended up being … It led to the demise of the company because we ran out of money, because we weren’t engaged in the thing that we were supposed to be doing, as much as we should have earlier on.
The last thing that I would say, is that people tend to have their egos driving their thing, and they think that they’re right. They’re moving forward, but they’re heading in the wrong direction. It helps to have somebody that’s either balder or grayer, that’s been around an extra couple two or three decades, that’s giving you feedback. I got into a lot of trouble when I stopped having those people in my life. I thought I was the smartest person, so always having that person that you’re connecting to, and sharing, and being really open with, that can say, “Hey, here’s what I’m seeing.” It’s your coach. There’s a reason that every successful Olympian and athlete and the Fortune 500 CEOs, they all have coaches. They have teams of people that give them feedback. Why would we be any different, unless we just want to be average, and I don’t think that’s why we are here on earth, to just be average. It’s to really shine in whatever way we’re supposed to, and we need people to give us feedback on [crosstalk 00:15:01].
Martin: Could you apply the same principles to personal finances, as you give to starting a business? Making sure that you didn’t have too much at your disposal, and I guess getting a wise mentor to come in and give you that sort of second opinion?
Damion: That’s a great idea for absolutely everybody to have someone that’s giving you feedback. One of the things I love right now, in our society, there are tonnes of people that are coaches. I don’t think that a lot of them are very good, but if they sit there, and they ask a few questions, that can change your life. And one of those questions is, “What’s going on with your money, and what are you doing personally?” Because if we can get clear on our money, and it’s not creating chaos because somebody’s giving us input, it opens up space for us to actually think about something else, other than just our money.
Our money tends to drive our conversations, either externally or in our head. We want to find a way to leave that, so that we can go and do other things, so we’re not just trapped. This is the shackles we talked about, the financial bondage, where you’re concerned or worried, or thinking about it all the time, and having somebody give you feedback …
One of the things that I do with people that come in, and they say, “Okay, I need help with my money.”, and I look at their balance sheet, and I say, “You’ve got two million pounds, and you’re concerned?” And they say, “Well, but I might run out.” And I say, “Okay, well let’s start giving some of that money away.”, and they say, “What?” It’s fascinating to see how their idea around spending scarcity and abundance starts to switch when they start realising that they can be generous instead of greedy, and how they can create, but they have to have a practise of actually giving. It changes things.
I see people do that all the time, and they wouldn’t have done it unless somebody encouraged them. Unless they paid somebody to tell them to do this thing that’s so obvious. It is a process of opening yourself up, instead of keeping yourself trapped [crosstalk 00:16:54].
Martin: Can you tell us more about scarcity and abundance, because these are different mindsets people can have, believing that there’s limited amounts out there, or there’s plenty out there. What difference does it make to have that abundance mindset?
Damion: It allows you to be very forward thinking, very future thinking. The scarcity mentality is based on the security need that we have as humans, where we’re programmed for, basically, for survival. Our primal instincts are thinking about this rustling in the bushes that’s going to eat us, and we’re thinking about starving to death, so what are we going to hunt and gather that is going to feed us so we don’t die? Those [inaudible 00:17:34] things are baked into our DNA. When we start sharing, and we start giving, we start to rewire.
There’s something called neuroplasticity, which is the rewiring of the brain, and it starts to happen when you have the activities around being generous, being open, giving of your time, giving of your money, and you find that you’re naturally inclined to want to do more, because you have a dopamine hit that happens from this experience, and naturally, you start to release the tension.
The problem, if we think about money in our lives and our bodies, is there’s a lot of tension that we have. We’re trying to hold on to everything, and it’s the most dangerous thing in martial arts, or if you’re in the street, and you’re really tense because you’re not aware. When you get very tense, you get very narrow in terms of what you see, and you’re not aware of what’s going on around you. Same thing with money, if you’re very tense, then you’re in a protective state. You’re not breathing very well, and you don’t have the ability to actually connect with the reality. All you’re connecting with is the fear, that at like one point … Which makes sense, because if there is that one point that you need to focus on, with a lion that’s going to eat you, you can’t be looking over to the left and right. You need to be focused on the lion, to make sure it doesn’t eat you. We’ve got to release the tension, and that’s where the shift into seeing and feeling [crosstalk 00:18:46].
Martin: You made a comparison there to martial arts. You’re the founder of your own martial art. I’d promised I’d come back and ask you about that. Tell us about your own martial art, and what’s that taught you about life, and about money?
Damion: The interesting thing about founding Yokido, and building that after the last 20 years of training, is that it’s the exact same thing as life and finance. There’s something that’s wild about the relationships that we have, that the more we go into relationships with an openness and a relaxation, both in the dojo and with money and business and connection, when we release the tension, we’re able to experience the truth of whatever’s happening and what we’re in.
The practise that I teach, is really about helping people let go of all of the wound-up energy that’s sticking them, where they’re trying to use force for things. There’s a great book by David Hawkins called Power vs Force, and when we think about force, it’s what you think about with most martial arts. It’s what we think about with selling things, with businesses, and pounding people into submission.
The other side of that is the power around being in deep relationship with that tension, and the more we can let go, the more we can seek to understand people, and be with them in a relationship. This has everything to do with presence. The deeper you go into presence, the more powerful you are, and the more peaceful your life is going to be.
The question for everyone is, how do you go into deeper presence? And the first step is really letting go of the tension, and then it’s the breath work. I’m talking about the breath work for you, waking up in the morning, so you’re not just running off to your phone, you’re not running off to the work, you’re actually breathing and being still. That’s the first step in anything. It’s a fascinating bridge between martial arts and business, when you start to realise that it starts with your breath and your awareness [crosstalk 00:20:44].
Martin: Damion, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. I know you’re the host of your own podcast too, so could you tell us a bit about that, but also how can we connect with you, how can we find out more about your work?
Damion: Yeah, absolutely. The show is called Transformation Nation, and it’s a deeper and deeper dive into the financial bondage and unleashing that. We go into the different ideas and different techniques, and different ways of thinking around that freedom. And it’s really so that you can transform your life from whatever it is, into the deepest vision and truest form of what you want, and what your experience should be, or could be.
People can find out more about that at damionlupo.com and there’s lots of further tools and books and things that people can pick up, that I think will help a lot of folks ask new questions, and that’s what it’s really all about, because the inner guru, the teacher is inside you. If the question is right, the answer will [crosstalk 00:21:43].
Martin: Damion, I’ll make sure I put links in the show notes too, particularly to your websites, so we can find that. Thank you so much for your time.
Damion: Thank you, Martin. It’s been a pleasure.
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